Translation of DOCUMENT 124-R, from IMT

Translated by Carlos Whitlock Porter

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Secret Reichs Matter

Stenographic Report of 21st Conference of Central Planning Committee on Labour Service on 30 October 1942, afternoon, in the Reichsministry for Weaponry and Munitions, Berlin, Pariser Platz 3
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Milch: ....... We need to further increase production immediately by another three times as much. That means that we need to turn out 135 or140 times as much production as during the (First) World War, just in aircraft motors alone. Dr. Werner, who is responsible for the motor industry, has made suggestions on how it can be done. He says we have to go over to assembly lines everywhere, otherwise we can't do it. He has very far-reaching ideas in this field. In motors, we can surely do it; we can manufacture the crankshafts, connecting rods, etc. on assembly lines. We are making 40,000 units of connecting rods today. But we still have no machine tools to turn the things out individually on the assembly line. The Americans have such machines. We need perhaps 10 builders and 5 fitters; we simply can't get them. We need to really put the pressure on for these people. I have always told them to wait until November and have told them Sauckel will get the people out of agriculture.

Sauckel: Wouldn't it be possible to stem the enormous fluctuation if the companies made more of an effort, and the foremen worked their people harder? The fluctuation is really abnormal.
Speer: The problem of absenteeism is another thing we need to deal with. Ley has proven that where there are company doctors, and the people are examined by company doctors, the number of people reporting sick falls to a quarter or a fifth as much. The SS or police can easily strike hard here and put people who are known shirkers in concentration camps. That's the only way to do it.

You only need to do it to a couple of them, the word will get around..........

[Note: The document is supposed to be a "photocopy", and yet there are deletions from within the page itself! Normally, a "photocopy" should reproduce the entire page. There are no signatures anywhere on the document.]

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Secret! Secret Reichs Matter
Stenographic Report of 33rd Conference of Central Planning Committee on Labour Service on 16 February 1943, 16 hours, in the Reichsministry for Weaponry and Munitions, Berlin, Pariser Platz 3
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..........

All in all, we believe that with the approach of the warmer season, the big problems of the winter are coming to an end, just like last year, and that 1 to 1 1/2 million workers will be available to us. It's got to the point where, due to pressure from us, and the introduction of the compulsory labour service in France, which was put together in difficult negotiations with Laval and my people, the law has been expanded, so that three age groups were called up in France yesterday. So now we have workers out of three age groups to recruit from, legally, and with the support of the French government. They can be used in French factories in the future, or we can seek them out to work in the Reich and send them to Germany. I think we've broken the ice in France now. According to the news I've got, people are starting to get a bit worried about the danger of a break-through by the Bolsheviks, the threat they pose to Europe. The resistance shown by the French government so far has now lessened. I'll be travelling to France in the next few days, so that the deficiencies in the East can be somewhat compensated for through reinforced recruiting and compulsory labour service.

If we get the complete lists on time, I believe we can still meet the needs of all manufacturers for 800,000 men in March.
..........
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Vo/Dr.Ko/Grs.

Milch: That's another matter. If women signals assistants are put into service, it shouldn't be done as auxiliaries, but only if it releases soldiers for duty. There are more than 100,000 signals troops in the Army and the Air Force. With us, it used to be 250 to 300,000. Whether it's that many today, I don't know. They are all fighting-fit young men. I have always fought against this, and said: if it's done now, a whole load will be released for service; it doesn't matter whether it's for the factories or for the front.

Of course, there's a front somewhere in the East, too. This front will hold for a certain time. The only thing the Russians will get of any use to them in the territories evacuated by us for the time being, is the people. I wonder whether it might not be a better idea to move the people back, to 100 km behind the front. The entire civilian population can move 100 km behind the front. Nobody is engaged in entrenchment work now.

Timm: We tried to evacuate the population of Kharkov to the rear. 90 to 100,000 people were needed for entrenchment work in Kharkov by the fortifications commander, so we had to put together whole trains for some of them.

Weger: Accurate blasting work was done, too.

Milch: But that's being done by Army miners. Soon there won't be any hope of getting any more prisoners of war from the East.

Sauckel: The prisoners captured there are needed there.

Milch: We have made the request that a certain percentage of the people with us in the anti-aircraft artillery should be Russians. 50,000 are said to be coming in all; 30,000 are already there as gunners. It's a strange thing that Russians should serve the guns (eine witzige Sache, daß Russen die Kanonen bedienen mussen).We still need the last 20,000. I got a letter from the Supreme Commander of the Army yesterday, that said: we can't give you a single one, we don't have enough ourselves. So this matter will not be very successful for us.

Speer: It would be good to make it a bit clearer in the press about the use of women in offices

Milch: That should be stressed in the foreground, as a basic thing. Here, it's a question of whether I get the reckoning from our industries on time. The matter has got to be got in order sometime. There's no cheating. The people who want to cheat, still cheat today, whether they have these people or not, whether they have their reckoning up to date or not. The other people are decent. Most of them have not cheated. Whether we relax a bit on the price inspection will not be very important. The most important thing is that the work gets done. We know what's being produced abroad.

We got the figures today. The Russians in particular are making 2000 airplanes a month for the front. That figure is much higher than ours. We shouldn't forget that. We must get on the assembly line and really produce whole loads.

Sauckel: There are always repeated disputes in the economy about whether the German workers are working at full production yet. Minister Funk just recently declared that the German worker is putting out at full production. I am .....

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Dr. Janicke:
Secret! Secret Reichs Matter
Stenographic Report of 21st Conference of Central Planning Committee on the Economic Plan for Coal, 1943/44, Thursday, 22 April 1943, afternoon, 15:30 hours, in the Fortified Barracks by the Zoo, Jebenstr.

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... can't be taken out of the reserve in Germany, but must be really strong foreigners.

Timm: We have a request for 69,000 men in the coal industry. We want to cover it through the Reichs apportionment of 23,000 -- these are healthy prisoners of war, etc. who are especially suitable for coal -- and through 50,000 Poles from the General Gouvernement. Of these, approximately 30,000 had been placed by 20 April, so that we still need the remainder, of approximately 35,700 for January to April. The May requirements have been set at 35,700. The difficulties lay especially in the recruiting in the General Gouvernement, since there is extraordinary resistance there, as in all the areas around Germany, from the recruited people. In all states, we are going over more or less to calling people up according to age groups, and conscripting them on that basis. They appear for the actual reporting, but as soon as the transport question gets acute, they don't show up any more, so that producing the personnel has become more or a less a police matter.

Especially in Poland, the situation is extraordinarily serious at the moment. It is known that serious struggles have been carried on precisely because of these things. In the administration which we created over there, resistance is very strong. A whole load of our men are exposed to increased dangers, and several of them were shot just in the last 14 days or 3 weeks, so that the leader of the Labour Office in Warsaw was shot in his office 14 days ago, and yesterday yet another. That's how it's going in the moment, and recruiting is extraordinarily difficult at the moment, even with the best will in the world, without police reinforcement.

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It was planned to have 50,000 men here from the General Gouvernement by the end of the month. That unfortunately could not be carried out. Of them, only 3 to 4,000 of them are here so far, and another 8,000 are on their way, so that the gap is really considerable.

Reichsminister Speer: We can only handle some of these people on a monthly basis.

Sogemeier: We have provided for the following plan in stages: April 26,000, May 30,000, June 30,000, July 50,000, and September 56,000. If the people arrive in this order of instalments, we will be able to reach the target of 290 million tons, as long as there are no special levies out of the coal industry.
Reichsminister Speer: Are those additional reportings for duty? Are those figures that you want to increase?

Timm: Yes, including the deficiencies that we must reckon with!

(Milch: Including the 70,000!)

Reichsminister Speer: So the deficiencies aren't included in the figures?

Timm: Yes, it's not an increase, but allocations, if I understand correctly. As I said, we hope to get approximately 50,000 men from the General Gouvernement next month. It will amount to 73,000 with the transfers, and then the first two months would be covered. For us, it is very difficult.......

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Sogemeier: The need for labour doesn't just apply to anthracite. We'll need an additional 25,000 over the next few months in lignite.

Reichsminister Speer: The other mining sectors, including iron ore, are said to be in the same situation.

Kehrl: 85% are needed in coal mining. We ought to make a corresponding increase for the other mining sectors.

Reichsminister Speer: You should summarize the figures. We can't go to the Reichsmarschall with individual figures.

Timm: It's 70,000 for coal, and 14,000 for the other mining sectors, including potash.

Reichsminister Speer: We would do it so that Kehrl collects the requirements of the individual sectors, which are necessary to carry out the coal and iron plan, then transmit the figures to Sauckel. The conference with the Reichsmarschall over this whole problem will probably take place over the next few weeks, and the results have to be presented to Sauckel by then. The question of inclusion in the armaments industry will be agreed with Weger.

Kehrl: I would urgently like to request that the allocations to the mining sector not be based on the possibility of recruiting men in foreign countries. We have been completely dependent on them over the past three months. We've carried a deficit of 25,000 forward from December, and no replacements have been delivered. We've got to get them from Germany.

Reichsminister Speer: No, that's impossible!

Kehrl: We're coming to a standstill. I remember that we we've been feeding the coal industry with nothing but promises for a year now, and we've got nothing but problems where coal is concerned. They've received half the nominal requirements which were promised to them last year.

Reichsminister Speer: It isn't true they've only received promises from us. They got something from us since then. We don't want to push our industry into the background!

Kehrl: After all, we're in a very precarious position which must lead to disturbances, in view of the constantly increasing demands of the armaments industry. We've just drawn up the plan for May. The plan can no longer be balanced in practice because of the first of May holiday. We've just discovered that we don't know how we're going to do it. The May 1st holiday will cost us 800,000 tons of coal. That can't be covered by a gradual increase in output. What the mining industry can raise, it has to raise in passing.

Reichsminister Speer: That's out of the question! If Sauckel can promise to get the numbers he wants

-- --Timm: He has stated quite expressly that he can't promise to get 50,000 out of the General Gouvernement.

Reichsminister Speer: There's also Russia!

Timm: Military events have caused a dramatic drop in the flow that we got until December. We used to get 10 to 12,000 men a day; in the last 3 months, we've got 60,000 in all. That's how the numbers have fallen off.....

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Kehrl: What we delay or lose in manufacturing can always be made up. But what we lose in coal, is lost for forever for this war. That's why we can't put enough pressure on for service in the mining industry.

Reichsminister Speer: But not through violent actions, which would destroy what we've tediously built up.

(Kehrl: We don't need that either!)

The conscriptions are in addition to that.

Timm: We must try to get German men for German underground mining:

Kehrl: We're living off foreigners who just happen to be in Germany.

Timm: They're very strongly concentrated. Otherwise we'll cause unrest in this sector.

Reichsminister Speer: There's an allotment as to which sectors the Russian prisoners of war are assigned to, and this allocation is very interesting. According to this, only a relatively low percentage of them, 30%, are in armaments. I've often complained of this.

Timm: The greatest percentage of prisoners of war are French, and we shouldn't forget that these are hard to place underground. The number of Russians in the Reich is in itself very small.
Rohland: We should try to take only Easterners, no Westerners, in mining.

Reichsminister Speer: The Westerners are slackers!

Sogemeier: I must mention what a slippery road we're on. Compared to the end of February, before the SE action got acute, we got 4,000 tons daily......

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Reichsminister Speer: We'll get over that one way or another.

Meinberg: What Ganzenmüller meant to say is, it will be difficult to meet the added consumer demand in the autumn. In coal, we can stockpile a big proportion. We did that last winter, but didn't need to so much this winter.

Kehrl: We can't get much relief for the autumn, due to lack of coal, particularly for domestic heating. We can't even do it normally with a twelfth, since the low output would lead to severe drops in industry. We're well below the previous year there, according to the forecast figures for May. That's also the source we use for stockpiling.

Sogemeier: Last year, we had a stockpile of over 4 million tons, this year it's about 3/4 million tons.

Reichsminister Speer: We've got to put pressure on coal production with all our power, no matter how. I have a report here on how the Soviet prisonersare allocated. A total of 368,000 are available. Of them, there are 101,000 in agriculture, 94,000 in mining -- they can no longer be considered for this purpose anyway -- and 15,000 in the building materials industry. In iron and steel production, that is, iron ore and the steel-producing industry, 26,000-- none of them should be taken away here either -- iron, steel, and metalware manufactures, 29,000; machinery and boiler-making, and vehicle parts manufacture, that is, the armaments industry, 63,000; in the chemicals industry 10,000. Agriculture therefore has by far the most, and they could be exchanged for women over the course of time. The 90,000 Russian prisoners of war in the armaments industry as a whole are mostly technicians. If you can take 8 to 10,000 out, it will be a lot.

Kehrl: Can't you take Serbs, etc?

Sogemeier: We shouldn't mix them too much.

Rohland: For God's sake, no Serbs! We have had very bad experiences with mixing.

Reichsminister Speer: We assume 290 million tons in allocating the bulk yield. If the conditions can't be fulfilled for it, it will have very serious consequences on the whole domestic heating supply. Sauckel must be made aware in this regard that if the manpower can't be placed, the psychological effect on the population will be very serious in itself.

Meinberg: In particular, when the worker transports always arrive 1 1/2 months later than announced, that means a loss of 10% for the overtime workers. Then we won't get anywhere near the 290 million tons, but 280 million tons at most. The delay in reporting for duty amounts to that.

Reichsminister Speer: How should we go on producing according to your proposal, Kehrl?

Kehrl: If sufficient measures are ensured due to the labour service, we won't have any problem with the allocation. The allocation problem will, however, be insoluble if we allocate less than 290 million tons, that is, with an output of less than 282 million tons. According to what Timm has just said and what was just discussed, we won't make it with these measures. He wants to take 22,000 out of the interior, in addition to 10,000 Russian prisoners of war, a total of 32,000. For the others, we're depending on God and the General Gouvernement. But so far, after the......

Secret!

Stenographic Report of 53rd Conference of Central Planning Committee on Labour Service on 16 February 1944, 10 hours, in the Reichs Ministry for Air Transport

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..........

When the tillage and harvest work begins, the women will all be fully occupied on the land. The painted women, by the way, have been back in Berlin for a long time. Since May 1943, for the rest, another 90,000 men have been called up for the army from the agricultural sector from the younger age groups, and still more are being constantly called in.

Milch: The armaments industry is working to a very great extent with foreigners, according to the latest effective figures, it's 40%. The latest allocations from the GBA are mostly foreigners, and we have lost a lot of German personnel to the call-up. Air armaments in particular, which is a young industry, employs many young people who must also become soldiers; how difficult it is becomes clear when we lose the ones working in the testing offices. In real mass production, the number of foreigners is by far the majority, and reaches about 95% and more in places. Our most valuable new motor is 88% made by Russian prisoners of war, and the other 12% are German men and women. There are only 6 to 8 German men working on the Ju 52, which is only used as a transport machine now, producing 50 to 60 machines a month; the rest are mostly Ukrainian women, who have depressed all the production records for technical workers.
I now wish to present the manufacturers' wishes in detail.

Backe: I already mentioned the figures, as far as that is concerned, during the meeting with the Führer. Even if the 100,000 men in forestry and 100,000 men in industry go back into agriculture, we'll still need 400,000 men. For potato cultivation overall, a great deal will depend on the spring tillage. We've seriously cut all demands. We can't stand it for long, because........

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-- That can't be proven statistically.

Milch: We ought to give Himmler a list of loafers and put them in loyal hands who'll make them work. That's very important in terms of educating the population, and also has a deterrent effect on others who'd like to loaf, too.

[?] [something missing here] t by the way, and which have been drawn up with the Central Committee and the office responsible for them.

Kehrl: The improvement in documentation is only restricted to deficiencies. We must choose a corresponding method for the allocations. I imagine that we could get some figures and concepts where everybody spoke the same language.

Milch: It's important to create clear concepts, not only for us, but also for the men on top. I'd like to tear out [ausrotten] the fluctuation -- which is largely determined by nature, and which is part of the problem -- by the roots. But we can only do that if we have clear conditions and figures. That's the reason for my request the consider the loafer problem as well, like we do with illness, etc.. Gauleiter Sauckel is rightly proud that his district of Thüringen has a very low sick rate. Sauckel worked on it even in peacetime, and educated the population there correspondingly. In other districts, people don't pay as much attention to this matter. A distinction must be made between Germans and foreigners, between men and women. We've also got to investigate the causes for the higher percentage of sick people. Maybe the food problem has something to do with it in an unfavourable way. In other regions, maybe the doctors are too soft. They need clear instructions. At another office, there is a......

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Berk: I raised no objection, but only indicated the problem.

Waeger: You expressed the opinion that labour reserves are still available to us which are not being used.

Milch: We really want to say that this is the case everywhere, because it is quite impossible to exploit people to the maximum. In addition, we don't have the leadership personnel in industry, since the best personnel we had has mostly been called up for the army. As a result, it is quite impossible to use every foreigner fully, unless the agreement forces him to, and unless we are able to take action against foreigners who don't do their job right. If the foreman takes a prisoner of war and gives him a box on the ear, there's the biggest fuss right away; the man goes to prison, etc. There are enough authorities in Germany which consider it their chief duty not to work for war production, but for the human rights of others. I'm for human rights, too, but when a Frenchman says, "You guys are all going to get hanged, the foreman will be the first to get his throat cut", and the foreman says, "I'm going to thump that guy", then he gets in trouble. There's no protection for him, only protection for the "poor guy" who said that.

I've told my engineers, "If you don't thump a man like that, then I'll punish you; the more you do to him in this respect the more praise you'll get from me; nothing will happen to you, I'll stand up for you". The word hasn't gotten around yet. Of course, I can't talk with every foreman. But I'd like to see the guy that will keep from doing what I say, because I'm ready to confront everyone who wants to stop me.

If a little foreman does that, then he goes to a concentration camp, and at the same time, they threaten to take his prisoners of war away. In one case, two Russian officers took an airplane and started it. But they crash landed. I ordered them hanged immediately. They were hanged or shot yesterday. I left that to the SS. I wanted to hang them in the factory, so that the others could see it. Of course there was a big fuss afterwards. There will naturally be somebody who wants to stand up for the prisoners of war. We would be able to do better work immediately in any case if we had better leadership personnel and a better agreement, above all, if the provisions against bad people could be made stricter.

Berk: First, one should theoretically divide the 4 million up over the 4 quarters of the year. Then, one million would fall under the first quarter. Of course, that can't be done. The programme was only decided on in January. We need a whole series of measures to get it started. The 1st quarter will be the hardest. Nevertheless, I believe that I can state, with reservations, that we can count on approximately 500,000 for February and March combined.

Kehrl: For January, the effective allocations would come in addition, which have taken place in amounts of 145,000. Those are allocations under the terms of the GBA, unreal fluctuations.

Berk: They are therefore included in this number, taking account of what we said about the concepts of real and unreal fluctuation. Labour is anticipated from France, Belgium, the Netherlands, out of the East, the South, and other European countries; furthermore, we plan to examine the duty to report, and the use of bombing refugees; 40,000 are expected for the two months. Furthermore we have plans for a.......

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Secret!

Stenographic report of 54th Conference of Central Planning Committee on Labour Service, on Wednesday, 1 March 1944, 10 hours, in the Reichs Ministry for Air Transport

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.....

...Sauckel: Mr. Field Marshal! Gentlemen! It is obvious that we will fulfil the demands of the Central Planning Committee agreed upon by us insofar as possible. At the same time, I would like to give an assurance that I understand "possible" to mean that which can be produced using the greatest efforts of the GBA apparatus. I already had to tell the Führer on 4 January, to my personal misfortune for the first time, that I could no longer guarantee the total quota agreed on by us for 1944 in the Führer's headquarters, in the amount of 4,050,000. I repeatedly emphasized this in the presence of the Führer.

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In past years, it was, of course, fulfilled, at least in part; but this year it is no longer possible to guarantee it in advance. I would therefore like to ask in this regard for the numbers to be allocated as a percentage, falling within the framework of this programme. I agree, without further ado, that when somebody in Central Planning tells me, we must change that now, then such and such is urgent now! It is obvious that we can fulfil it with a clear conscience in each case, with the best will, depending on the war situation. So much for the figures.

We don't need to argue about the figures in detail; since we do nothing for ourselves. We cannot even do anything with the workers ourselves; rather, we make them available to the economy. I would only like to make a few basic remarks and I am asking you for your patience.

The labour service was almost completely destroyed in the autumn of last year, insofar as it applies to foreign labour conscription. I don't want to talk about the reasons for it here now; they have been talked about enough. But I must tell you: it has been destroyed. In all of France, Belgium, and Holland, they were of the opinion that, due to the transfers within these countries, service in Germany was no longer necessary for these countries. People called me a fool for months. I sometimes go over there twice a month, they called me a fool for wanting to travel around and recruit people in these countries, even when it seemed impossible. This went so far -- I can assure you -- that all the prefectures in France had instructions not to fulfil my programmes, since it was quite uncertain, even in the German offices, whether Sauckel was a fool or not. What has been destroyed in this manner, can only be rebuilt with very, very, great difficulty.....
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..........
We only got 7,000 civilian workers from Italy. At the same time, I haven't given myself one hour, one Sunday, not one night off, in the period since 1.12. I have been in these countries, also everywhere in the Reich. It is endlessly difficult, not because there are no more people over there. I would like to state expressly: Italy is a real European scandal, and so is most of France. Gentlemen, the French work badly, and live at the expense of the German soldiers and German payments, also at the cost of German food; and it's the same in Italy. The situation there, as I was able to observe during my last visit, is that the Northern Italians, in terms of food, can in no way be compared with the Southern Italians. The Northern Italians, that is, down to Rome, are so well fed that they really don't need to work. In contrast to the German people, they are fed by their heavenly father without any particular output in terms of work. The reserves are there, but the means to get them, have been destroyed.

The most fearful moment I've have to struggle against, is when they say that there isn't any German executive in these areas to compel the French, the Italians, or Belgians to work purposefully. I've have even gone so far as to recruit a staff of French men and women, Italian men and women, who go out and stupefy people with liquor and promises, for good pay, like Shanghaiing * in the old days, to get them to come to Germany. I have also appointed a couple of good strong men to build up a labour service executive; I have trained and armed a number of domestic crews, of course, under the aegis of the higher SS and police leaders, and must now ask the Ministry of Munitions for weapons for these people. Because in the last year alone, several dozen higher labour officials of great ability were shot. All these paths, as grotesque as they may seem, must be trodden today, to get past the difficulties of the moment; there's no executive in these countries to bring labour forces to Germany.

[* "Shanghaiing": Here's another ridiculous exaggeration taken seriously by William L. Shirer. Nobody was ever knocked unconscious or drugged and kidnapped to get him to enroll in the German labour service. This is obvious reference to voluntary enlistment. - C.P.]

I must tell you, Mr. Field Marshal, and after repeated scrutiny: there is no longer any real German labour service. With the Führer's approval, I have now issued the well-known decree, which the Führer himself inspired, corrected, and prepared, for voluntary honorary service. What the results will be, I don't know; it will be very little. I will continue to build up this voluntary honorary service.

The Führer wants it to be recruited from the women's organization only. I met with the women's organization and the German district women's organization leaders to implement the most complete recruitment of 45 and 50 year-old women. Something will come from that. In individual districts, some really good beginnings are already being made. But recruitment needs to be carried on effectively and without interruption, and that needs a while to get going. Almost 60,000 new people have been newly put into service from the German people in just the first two months of this year, and the total yield is not as hopeless as I had thought. It now amounts to 262,000. At the same time, only 112,000 are from the East. We therefore have the pleasing result that, in the remaining areas that we still have over there, it has now been recognized that the people are more valuable here than over there. Just this service of 112,000 new Eastern workers, preferably men, has made it possible.........

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I am speaking here quite openly and ruthlessly: in my view, the exaggerated notion of protected industries in France is a serious danger to the labour service in Germany. If we cannot agree here that in France every possible company must be examined by my men, together with men from the armaments office, then the source for Germany will be blocked in the future too, and that will mean that the programme I was assigned by the Führer will be jeopardized to a considerable extent. It's similar in Italy. There are enough workers in both countries, even enough technicians; we must only have the courage to intervene in these French companies. What happens in France, I don't know. That the enemy does less work with operational measures, precisely in the occupied territories, than in Germany appears absolutely certain to me. So in order to be able to fill my programme, the programme that you presented me with here, in distribution, it must be agreed with me, and with my men, that the concept of "protected industry" in France must be reduced to that which is really necessary and can be reasonably defended; and that the protected companies in France do not become a protection against labour service in Germany, as it is considered to be by the French. It is very difficult for me, as a German in France, to stand before a situation which means nothing else in the eyes of the French people than: the only thing being protected here, is Sauckel, against getting his own armaments. The protected industries in France mean nothing other than protection from intervention by Sauckel! This is how the French see it, and they cannot be expected to see it any other way; since they are French, and they must show a clear divergence in attitude and execution. To what extent the protected industries are purposeful and necessary is not a matter for me to criticize. This is the only way it looks to me. But I hope on the one hand to succeed anyway, through my agent organizations and my bodyguard corps and, secondly, through the measures which I have fortunately been able to press through. I succeeded, in 5 to 6 hour negotiations with Mr. Laval, in obtaining the possibility that death sentences may be passed on officials who sabotage the labour service and other measures. Believe me, that was very difficult. That was a very bitter fight for me to get that through. But it has now happened, and I request really categorical intervention in France by the Germans, particularly by the Army, if the French government doesn't intervene. Don't take offence at the remark: I have sometimes faced situations with my men in France in which I had to say: doesn't the German lieutenant and 10 men in France mean anything at all? For months, they paralysed my every word with the answer: What do you expect, Mr. Gauleiter, we have no executive here; we can do nothing in France! That claim was made over and over again. How can I implement the labour service in France? The German offices must work together in the labour service, and if the French, despite all promises, do not intervene, we must make an example on the German side; and on the basis of this law, under certain circumstances, put a prefect or mayor up against the wall if he doesn't play along: otherwise no more Frenchmen will go to France. In the last quarter, belief in German victory and everything that we could produce in our favour in the area of propaganda has fallen to less than nothing, and that is still the case today; that the new French ministers, especially Henriot, have already intervened; they are very willing, and I have a good impression of them. It is only a question of how far they can succeed with their subordinate authorities. That is the situation in France.
.........
Milch: How great is the percentage of protected industries in Italy in comparison with the total work force?

Schieber: It is, I believe, 14%. I don't have the figures here.

Milch: Wouldn't it be better, to protect the protected industries, to take over the entire distribution in Italy, put it in German hands, and say: you only get to eat if you work in a protected industry or come to Germany?

Sauckel: The fact of the matter is that French workers in France live better than German workers in Germany; even Italian workers in the parts of Italy occupied by us, live better, even when they don't work, than when they work in Germany. That's the reason for my repeated request to the German food authorities to improve the nutrition of German workers as well, with a factory lunch. When I'm in Paris, of course, I go to Maxime's. They do wonders with their cuisine there. I have often spoken with the Führer about it. He still thinks that in these countries there's only a small number of rich people who can go to Maxime's, and get good food. Now, I've sent my men into the suburbs of Paris, into the little cafes and lunchrooms, and I've seen that the French there don't even feel the burden of the war in comparison to our people at all. Even the average Frenchman can get everything he wants.

(Interjection: In the small towns, it's even better.)

It sure is. The French can also pay for what they get. So it's not the case that there's any incentive to come to Germany to eat better. That is unfortunately not so.

Milch: Can't you create it? The retail distribution, of course, can't be taken over, but we can still take over the wholesale distribution.

Körner: We have made gigantic demands on France in food deliveries. They have always been fulfilled. Very often, of course, with a bit of pressure, but they were fulfilled.

Milch: But there's a simple way: we send no more food to the troops, but get it from the countryside. They'll consume everything in a few weeks, and then we can take over the distribution.
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..........
Kehrl: May I once again present the point of view of the Minister? The impression could otherwise arise that Minister Speer's measures were incomprehensible or nonsensical, and I would not like the impression to arise. For us, the matter looks as follows: the labour service for German purposes in France were of rather modest proportions until the beginning of 1943, since the scope of the transfer was confined to a few things in which German capacity was not sufficient, and in addition, to a few basic industries. During this whole time, a great number of Frenchmen came to the Reich through voluntary recruitment.

(Sauckel: Also through compulsory recruitment.)

Compulsory recruitment began when voluntary recruitment no longer sufficed.

Sauckel: Of the 5 million foreign workers who came to Germany, not 200,000 came voluntarily.

Kehrl: I'll leave the question of the degree to which some slight pressure was exerted, open for the moment. It was formally voluntary in any case. When voluntary recruitment no longer produced results, we went over to conscription by age-groups, and that was largely successful for the first age-group. A good 80% of the age-group was called up and sent to Germany. That started about June of the year. In harmony with the military developments in Russia, and the resulting feelings about the course of the war among Western peoples, the callup by age-groups fell off considerably; there are concrete figures available in this regard, that is, people tried to evade callup to Germany by age-group, partly by simply not registering, and partly by not showing up for transport, or getting off along the way.

[Note: Telford Taylor inserts an apparently non-existent sentence at this point on p. 429 of his ANATOMY book, indicating that there may be 2 or more versions of the same document.]

When they noticed during the first attempts at this type of evasion in the months of July/August, that the German Executive was either unable or unwilling..............

Page 6

Secret!

Stenographic report of 58th Conference of Central Planning Committee on Coal, on Thursday, 25 March 1944, 16 hours, Berlin, Pariser Platz 4

---Page 29
...............

Dorsch: We've got to get a man who participated in the advance of the OT in the West in 1940.These people have a lot of experience. The locks in France and Belgium are really a bit different from in Germany; they have a special type of construction.

Speer: You take care of it.

Steinbrink: On Friday eight days ago, a bridge near Hasselt was attacked by low altitude bombers at a distance of 30 metres. Three direct hits. For three days, we had nobody who knew what to do about it. Everything was in confusion. At the same time, it was important to repair it quickly. It's like the U-boat war here.

Speer: You often need eight days head-start for it.

Now, about the labour problem in Germany. I believe that it is still possible to get something over from the Western territories. The Führer just said a while ago that he wants to get over these problems, because he had the impression that the Army groups carried a big burden around with them. We must, therefore, if we don't succeed by ourselves, get a meeting with the Führer, in which to clarify the whole coal situation. Keitel and Zeitzler will also be invited, to establish what has to be transported to us in Russians out of the army territories to the rear. I see of course the possibility of making an action by taking more people from Russian prisoners of war in the Reich for the mining industry. But this possibility is not very great.

Pleiger: Those from agriculture don't stay with us. We can't get them to stay with us.

[Note: "eine Aktion machen"; in my video, MADE IN RUSSIA, I speculated that "Aktion" could mean moving workers from one workplace and assigning them to another workplace. That is exactly what it means here: taking prisoners from agriculture and assigning them to coal mining. "Aktion" is, of course, always translated as "extermination" when it suits the Exterminationists.]

Page 31

...... the only possibility which promises success, is to really take in Russian prisoners. They've given their best service in mining, just like in the (First) World War. All other measures lead nowhere. I am completely convinced that if we assign labour forces from other countries, like Italians or Hungarians, here, we'll suffer a complete breakdown. These people are only good for earthworks at most.

Kehrl: But there are Italian miners in Italy, even if it's mostly lignite in Italy.

Pleiger: That's OK, certainly. But lignite isn't such a big problem for us. The big problem we have, is anthracite. We can take care of the lignite sector without any other help.

Speer: I don't believe the we'll get Russians for this purpose without further steps. We need a decision of the Führer for that.

Kehrl: The problem is not only to do it with a big jolt, all at once; but the continual deficiency, leading to an exhaustion of stocks. We must have a durable source, and the source is not available.

Speer: We must come to an agreement with the Reichsführer SS as soon as possible, so that prisoners of war who are captured by him can be diverted to our purposes. 30 to 40,000 men flow to the Reichsführer SS every month. They must first of all be allocated. What sector do these people come from after all? There must be a certain percentage of miners among these men that get captured.
A couple of thousand of these men must be automatically assigned to coal mining. Certainly, there is some educational work to be done there. The people were placed in industry like criminal prisoners. But they have to go back into the industries where they were before. In addition, we could perhaps arrange to bring people out of agriculture into coal. A whole load of them are staying away, and the people don't like to go coal-mining, they go home.

Kehrl: I should suggest that I should first speak of the entire matter with Obergruppenführer Kohl. For this purpose, the Reichsführer SS could also appear at the conference with the Führer, so that we could settle the whole matter.

Speer: At any rate, the matter of armaments must be discussed in this direction.

Klagge: In the Protectorate, foreigners are not permitted. No prisoners of war, no Eastern workers, no Italians. The only possibility that we have here, is to allocate workers from the coal areas, somewhere in the Reich; that makes about 4 1/2 to 5 thousand men who can be sent back into coal mining. These people are, at least we may assume they are, not active in mining, but in other industries, as auxiliary workers. There's no other way to help mining in the Protectorate. After thorough scrutiny, we must reckon with a supply deficiency in the Protectorate of 20%.

Speer: That may well be, because there are growing programmes in the Protectorate.

Kehrl: That's another reason why not, because that's just where we're shifting things.

Speer: Herr Waeger, you must take the matter in hand.

Kehrl: The people must in particular, be appointed by name from over there.

Page 7
15 August 1942
Minutes of the Meeting with the Führer on 10, 11 and 12.8.1942

---Page 16

42) Sauckel will assure the necessary availability of Russian manpower in the necessary numbers for the iron and coal programme, and states that he -- if necessary -- will make one million Russian workers available for the German armaments industry by October 1942 inclusive, after which more than 700,000 workers can be made available by him for agriculture and 1 million workers for the economy.

The Führer stated at the same time that the question of labour procurement can be solved in any case and to that extent, and he will give Gauleiter Sauckel full powers to take the necessary steps to that purpose.

He would be agreed to any measures of compulsion if the question cannot be carried through on a voluntary basis, and, of course, not only for the East but rather, for the occupied Western territories as well.

The Führer demanded, despite the remarks and concerns of Herr Pleiger, an unconditional assurance from him of the necessary basic circumstances and conditions to carry out the planned iron production.

In all recognition of the especially great and difficult demands which have been made on the German coal industry and in consideration and recognition of cases of force majeure, binding and compulsory promises of delivery of the necessary additional quantities of coal are necessary to protect the armaments programme.
................
Page 8
Berlin, 29 Sept. 1942
Points of discussion of the Führer conference of 20, 21, and 22 Sept. 42.
...............
Page 13


36) called the attention of the Führer to the fact that -- apart from a small number of workers -- it will not be possible to draw upon armaments manufacture in the concentration camps, since:

1) the necessary machine tools are lacking for this purpose

2) the necessary construction facilities are lacking for this purpose, while both are still available in the armaments industry through exploitation of the second shift.

The Führer agreed with my proposal, according to which the widest variety of enterprises which have been located outside the cities for air raid protection should offer their available labour forces to companies in the cities, to fill the second shift, and get the necessary labour supply -- at any rate for two shifts -- from the concentration camps for this purpose. I drew the Führer's attention to the difficulties that I see in the demand of Reichsführer SS Himmler to exert a decisive influence on these companies. The Führer also believes that such an influence is not necessary.

On the other hand, the Führer agrees that an advantage for the Reichsführer SS Himmler arises from the procurement of prisoners to outfit his division.

I propose to distribute his prisoners on a percentage basis of the expenditure in working hours, by means of the issuance of military equipment. There was talk of a participation of approximately 3 to 5 %; the Führer would agree with this, in which case the equipment would be calculated according to the expenditure in working hours.
The Führer is prepared to issue the necessary instructions to the SS upon presentation of a list of the equipment and weapons.

Page 9
1st copy
Berlin, 9 April 1944
The Chief of the Technical Office TA Ch S/KR

Draft

Points from the discussion with the Führer on 6 and 7 April 1944

Page 6

17) General Field Marshal Milch reported on the results of the construction meeting of the Central Planning Committee, according to which the necessary construction volumes, due to the seriousness of the total situation, can only be realized for the most important construction projects. The Führer nevertheless demands that both the large works of at least 600,000 sq. m ordered by him must be built with all energy. He is agreed that one of these works should be built, not as a concrete structure but, according to our proposal, in extension of, and in immediate vicinity of, the present intermediate work, that is, as a so-called intermediate structure, and that this work should be carried out under the leadership of the Junkers-Werke.

As the immediate task, in addition to ensuring the step by step bottleneck production of the Junkers-Werke, the production of the Me 262 should be planned and carried out with 1000 units per month, and another fighter with 2,000 units per month.

It was proposed to the Führer that, due to a lack of construction workers and structures, the second large construction project should not be built on German territory, but in the immediate vicinity of the border on suitable terrain (particularly, gravel deposits and transport possibilities) on French, Belgian, or Dutch territory. The Führer agreed with this proposal if the work can be carried on behind a fortified zone. The fact, in particular, that it will be considerably easier to make the necessary workers available, speaks in favour of the proposed construction on French soil. The Führer nevertheless asks us to attempt to erect this second structure in a considerably safer area, namely the Protectorate. Should it be impossible to place the labour force there, the Führer wishes to get in personal contact with the Reichsführer SS and request him to obtain the approximately 100,000 men in Hungary, by calling up corresponding contingents of Jews. The Führer expressly demands, with the sharpest, most emphatic mention of the failure of the construction organization in the industrial community of Silesia, that this work must be built exclusively by the OT, and that the assignment of personnel should take place through the Reichsführer SS. He demands that short term a meeting with him should take place to discuss the details in the presence of the participating men.
...............

20) Gave the Führer the letter from Reichsminister Speer regarding the maintenance of the protected industries in France. The Führer summarized his opinion of the letter after reading it through with the words "That is quite my opinion". The Führer demanded, that to dissipate Gauleiter Sauckel's concerns, it was necessary to introduce extensive scrutiny by Reichsminister Speer's offices, to see that the labour forces working in the protected industries are actually used for armaments, and work with corresponding success on armaments assignments.
To the request, expressed to the Führer the next day, to issue a corresponding communication through Reichsleiter Bormann to Gauleiter Sauckel, the Führer agreed, but remarked that under no circumstances should anything be done in this area without his permission.